[OU] Ang: Announcement: Opera-Users mailing list to be closed in late July, 2010

[r***@privat.utfors.se]

----Ursprungligt meddelande----
Due to the low traffic volume, and the fact that we have several other
forums for discussions about Opera, we have decided to shut down the
Opera-Users mailing list. You can expect the list to be closed for new
mail towards the end of July, 2010.

*aargh*

This is the end of the world as I know it. Ouch.

Do I really have to become a forumite now? That would take a personality make over
unheard of in my universe.

Sniffle.

cheers/Rolf

[Jack Hill]

Not sniffles for me, rather curses!
I feel BETRAYED by Opera, especially since they first discontinued their
premium support, and now this!

Post by r***@privat.utfors.se

----Ursprungligt meddelande----
Due to the low traffic volume, and the fact that we have several other
forums for discussions about Opera, we have decided to shut down the
Opera-Users mailing list. You can expect the list to be closed for new
mail towards the end of July, 2010.

*aargh*
This is the end of the world as I know it. Ouch.
Do I really have to become a forumite now? That would take a personality make over
unheard of in my universe.
Sniffle.
cheers/Rolf
--

[John Lewis]

Post by r***@privat.utfors.se

Due to the low traffic volume, and the fact that we have several other

forums for discussions about Opera, we have decided to shut down the
Opera-Users mailing list. You can expect the list to be closed for new mail
towards the end of July, 2010.

Post by r***@privat.utfors.se
*aargh*
This is the end of the world as I know it. Ouch.
Do I really have to become a forumite now? That would take a personality make

over unheard of in my universe.

Post by r***@privat.utfors.se
Sniffle.

Seconded.

Sob :-((


�
�
�
John
�
***@clara.net
2/07/2010

[Harry Lake]

Post by r***@privat.utfors.se

Due to the low traffic volume, and the fact that we have several other

forums for discussions about Opera, we have decided to shut down the
Opera-Users mailing list. You can expect the list to be closed for new mail
towards the end of July, 2010.

Post by r***@privat.utfors.se
*aargh*
This is the end of the world as I know it. Ouch.
Do I really have to become a forumite now? That would take a

personality make
over unheard of in my universe.

Post by r***@privat.utfors.se
Sniffle.

Seconded.
Sob :-((

Sounds like another potential member for the suggested Opera user
group on Yahoo groups. (There are other hosts for groups I believe,
but Yahoo is the only one I'm familiar with.)

Harry

[Katrina Knight]

(There are other hosts for groups I believe, but Yahoo is the
only one I'm familiar with.)

Yahoo's list are rather poorly behaved.

[Harry Lake]

(There are other hosts for groups I believe, but Yahoo is the only
one I'm familiar with.)

[John Silby]

Instead of Yahoo! or Google, how about a mailing list identical to this
one? I have several domains I'm not using and would be willing to host a
mailing list.

John

I'll shut up now. As far as I'm concerned, the only important thing
is that it would be perfectly possible for this list to continue
practically seamlessly (especially if the new list adopts the old
[OU] identifier) under another host.
Harry

[Joel Kellner]

I don't know if this was intending to become a plebiscite just now or not,
but I like John's idea a lot and would cast my vote for it; it seems to be
the most seamless way of continuing that anyone of us has raised that I've
read.*
*

All the best, all the time,
Joel Kellner <>***@gmail.com
"There is absolutely no inevitability as long as there is a willingness to
contemplate what is happening."




Instead of Yahoo! or Google, how about a mailing list identical to this one?
I have several domains I'm not using and would be willing to host a mailing
list.

John

[Peter Ellis]

I'm with you on a mailing list. Why does everyone these days seem to
assume everyone is online all the time ? You need to be online with
forums to read everything and respond. I'm often doing email, etc.,
offline on my laptop and much prefer newsgroups.

Cheers
--
Peter Ellis

Porec Sales Office
Croatia Property Services
A trading name of Peter Ellis Grupa d.o.o.
Selling in the new Tuscany!

Tel [phone]

***@croatiapropertyservices.com

***@croatiapropertyservices.com

http://www.croatiapropertyservices.com
http://croatiaproperty.proboards16.com

[JAMES KING]

(There are other hosts for groups I believe, but Yahoo is the only one
I'm familiar with.)

[Katrina Knight]

On Fri, 02 Jul 2010 19:41:38 -0400, Katrina Knight

Post by Katrina Knight
Yahoo's list are rather poorly behaved.

[John Silby]

Post by JAMES KING
I don't know what issues you may have and with Yahoo in the past but
it's not a bad experience now. Give it a shot, if you like. What ever
you found to your
liking before will still be here now. Who knows, it may even die a slow
death. Anyway, I think the NEW list will be better with you, than
without you. BTW how > will a 'list' differ from a 'group'? Functionally
they will be the same. Just not the same software.

In my experience Yahoo! at best is a mediocre experience, whether it's
groups or email accounts. I never found anything there to my liking. I
won't be "giving it a shot", thanks.

If you're asking what the difference is between a Yahoo! group and a
mailing list like this one then we must be living on different planets.
They function in an entirely different way and are administered in a
completely different way. Moreover, to join a list like this one you don't
need to jump through hoops at Yahoo!, let alone set up an account at a
site - it's a simple matter of sending a "subscribe" email to the
appropriate address.

Post by JAMES KING
Personally, I'd prefer that we take up John's offer to set up a list.

My offer still stands if anyone is interested. If enough members of this
list show interest, then we can decide on an administrator and moderator/s
and I'll set it up, with whatever name you guys want.

John

[Katrina Knight]

Moreover, to join a list like this one you don't need to jump
through hoops at Yahoo!, let alone set up an account at a site
- it's a simple matter of sending a "subscribe" email to the
appropriate address.

Actually, you don't have to jump through hoops with Yahoo
either. You can just send a message to the Yahoo group's
subscription address. Unfortunately, many people never realize
that because Yahoo doesn't publicize that capability much. I
don't like Yahoo much, but they do provide the ability to do
basic management of your subscriptions without having to join
Yahoo and deal with it via a web page.

[John Silby]

Thanks, Katrina, I didn't know that. It doesn't change my opinion of
Yahoo! much though, LOL. I belong to a few groups and nearly all of them
regularly send out spam. In the one that never has spam the owner
moderates every message.

John

Actually, you don't have to jump through hoops with Yahoo either. You
can just send a message to the Yahoo group's subscription address.
Unfortunately, many people never realize that because Yahoo doesn't
publicize that capability much. I don't like Yahoo much, but they do
provide the ability to do basic management of your subscriptions without
having to join Yahoo and deal with it via a web page.

[Katrina Knight]

Post by John Silby
Thanks, Katrina, I didn't know that. It doesn't change my
opinion of Yahoo! much though, LOL. I belong to a few groups
and nearly all of them regularly send out spam. In the one that
never has spam the owner moderates every message.

I think there are two reasons for Yahoo groups being rife with
spam. One is that a lot of people who aren't particularly
computer-literate use Yahoo and get themselves infected with
malware that sends out spam. The other is that it is easy for
spammers to sign up for many Yahoo groups for the purpose of
spamming. Setting things up so that new users are moderated
mostly takes care of that problem. The Yahoo groups I belong to
don't send out much spam, mainly because I simply drop the ones
that have too much spam, only staying with the ones that have a
good ratio of real mail to junk.

[Bart Hansen]

[Harry Lake]

Post by unknown
I wish I had known about this before signing up with Yahoo, as it is
annoying to have to log in to Yahoo just to see if msgs might be
there.
How does the procedure below work, and Is there a way to receive the
Yahoo posts via Gmail or other client?

You don't have to log in. Messages come straight to your computer in
exactly the same way as with this opera.com list, just as your
replies to messages from the group go to all members. Because we can
all see each other's email addresses, it's easy to change the address
to send a message direct to a member if you want to. Be careful,
though: changing the address is always the /first/ thing to do,
before you start writing your message, otherwise you run the risk of
forgetting the address and then sending a private message to the whole list.

You only ever have to go to the Yahoo site if you want to view/read
or download files that members have uploaded - or to set your
security settings. Security settings have been a problem with Yahoo
in the past but I think they are now a lot easier to handle.

I'm open to correction if I've got anything wrong.

Cheers,

Harry

[Katrina Knight]

Post by unknown
I wish I had known about this before signing up with Yahoo, as
it is annoying to have to log in to Yahoo just to see if msgs
might be there.
How does the procedure below work, and Is there a way to
receive the Yahoo posts via Gmail or other client?

There are two ways to deal with Yahoo groups. One is to sign up
for a Yahoo account then join the group. When you do that, you
can choose whether or not to receive mail, and at which address
to receive it. You can connect a number of addresses to your
Yahoo account if you like and switch between them as desired.
There's definitely no need to go to the website to read
messages, nor is there any need to use a Yahoo mailing address
even if you sign up via the website.

The other way to do it is to subscribe to the group by sending a
message to NameOfGroup-***@yahoogroups.com. In this case,
that would be Opera_Users-***@yahoogroups.com.

[Bart Hansen]

[Joel Kellner]

*I've already signed up for the Yahoo group. If John will be setting one up,
as well, when the final decision is made, please let me know, because I'll
join that one, too.
*

All the best, all the time,
Joel Kellner<>***@gmail.com
"There is absolutely no inevitability as long as there is a willingness to
contemplate what is happening."

Post by JAMES KING
I don't know what issues you may have and with Yahoo in the past but it's
not a bad experience now. Give it a shot, if you like. What ever you found
to your
liking before will still be here now. Who knows, it may even die a slow
death. Anyway, I think the NEW list will be better with you, than without
you. BTW how > will a 'list' differ from a 'group'? Functionally they will
be the same. Just not the same software.

In my experience Yahoo! at best is a mediocre experience, whether it's
groups or email accounts. I never found anything there to my liking. I
won't be "giving it a shot", thanks.

If you're asking what the difference is between a Yahoo! group and a
mailing list like this one then we must be living on different planets.
They function in an entirely different way and are administered in a
completely different way. Moreover, to join a list like this one you don't
need to jump through hoops at Yahoo!, let alone set up an account at a
site - it's a simple matter of sending a "subscribe" email to the
appropriate address.

Post by JAMES KING
Personally, I'd prefer that we take up John's offer to set up a list.

My offer still stands if anyone is interested. If enough members of this
list show interest, then we can decide on an administrator and moderator/s
and I'll set it up, with whatever name you guys want.

John
--
Unsubscribe: mailto:opera-users-***@opera.com?subject=unsubscribe

[Bruce Tober]

Post by John Silby
In my experience Yahoo! at best is a mediocre experience, whether it's
groups or email accounts. I never found anything there to my liking.

Agreed for the most part. BUT....

Post by John Silby
If you're asking what the difference is between a Yahoo! group and a
mailing list like this one then we must be living on different planets.

Or the same one with several people not totally informed.

I've belonged to several yahoo groups/lists. I HATE web-based
lists/groups. But with yahoo ones, that's not a problem. Subscribers
have the option to read online or to get messages to the list sent
directly to their mail box.

Post by John Silby
need to jump through hoops at Yahoo!, let alone set up an account at a
site - it's a simple matter of sending a "subscribe" email to the
appropriate address.

Having set up an account on yahoo one time, the subscriptions to lists
is as simple as sending an e-mail to the list owner. Every message on
the list concludes with the following instructions:
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NameOfList/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NameOfList/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
NameOfList-***@yahoogroups.com
NameOfList-***@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
NameOfList-***@yahoogroups.com

[John Silby]

Sorry, Bruce, but you just made my point for me. "Every message on the
list concludes with the following instructions:" Certainly, but you have
to actually JOIN a list and start receiving emails from it to be able to
read those instructions! My point was that it's not as easy to join a
Yahoo group as it it is to join a Mailman list; until Katrina pointed it
out I did not know that it's possible to join a list by sending a
"subscribe" email. I've already commented on that a couple of times.

Why are all you guys so sensitive about Yahoo? Your experience might be
different from mine (or you're prepared to put up with more rubbish than I
am), but the fact remains that my experience of Yahoo is not good and I
don't like it. Nothing you say is going to change that.

John



On Tue, 06 Jul 2010 02:51:34 +1000, Bruce Tober

Post by Bruce Tober
Or the same one with several people not totally informed.
I've belonged to several yahoo groups/lists. I HATE web-based
lists/groups. But with yahoo ones, that's not a problem. Subscribers
have the option to read online or to get messages to the list sent
directly to their mail box.

Post by John Silby
need to jump through hoops at Yahoo!, let alone set up an account at a
site - it's a simple matter of sending a "subscribe" email to the
appropriate address.

Having set up an account on yahoo one time, the subscriptions to lists
is as simple as sending an e-mail to the list owner. Every message on
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NameOfList/
Individual Email | Traditional
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NameOfList/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

[Ledgem]

I don't like Yahoo, either. I'd prefer Google Groups over it. Having a privately-owned and run service sounds best to me, but of course that doesn't have the lasting potential of Yahoo or Google. It may be premature to be thinking of that, though!

David

Post by John Silby
Sorry, Bruce, but you just made my point for me. "Every message on the
list concludes with the following instructions:" Certainly, but you have
to actually JOIN a list and start receiving emails from it to be able to
read those instructions! My point was that it's not as easy to join a
Yahoo group as it it is to join a Mailman list; until Katrina pointed it
out I did not know that it's possible to join a list by sending a
"subscribe" email. I've already commented on that a couple of times.
Why are all you guys so sensitive about Yahoo? Your experience might be
different from mine (or you're prepared to put up with more rubbish than I
am), but the fact remains that my experience of Yahoo is not good and I
don't like it. Nothing you say is going to change that.
John
On Tue, 06 Jul 2010 02:51:34 +1000, Bruce Tober

Post by Bruce Tober
Or the same one with several people not totally informed.
I've belonged to several yahoo groups/lists. I HATE web-based
lists/groups. But with yahoo ones, that's not a problem. Subscribers
have the option to read online or to get messages to the list sent
directly to their mail box.

Post by John Silby
need to jump through hoops at Yahoo!, let alone set up an account at a
site - it's a simple matter of sending a "subscribe" email to the
appropriate address.

Having set up an account on yahoo one time, the subscriptions to lists
is as simple as sending an e-mail to the list owner. Every message on
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NameOfList/
Individual Email | Traditional
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NameOfList/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

--

[Julian]

Post by Ledgem
I don't like Yahoo, either. I'd prefer Google Groups over it. Having a
privately-owned and run service sounds best to me, but of course that
doesn't have the lasting potential of Yahoo or Google. It may be
premature to be thinking of that, though!
David

Hate to burst your bubble, but, if you read
the EULA of Google's and the one of Yahoo's, you
will see a few interesting and important
differences. Actually, there are only two very
big differences between them: control and privacy.

Have you read either EULA? When I
considered a gmail account, I read the document.
It stated that Google had the right to share any
and all information it had about me and any and
all data found in anything I put through Google.
This included, but not limited to, names and
addresses of people and places, and any and all
content I might place in e-mail messages to people
and organizations. It continued by saying that if
I agree to the EULA, then I am agreeing to their
sharing that with government, retailers, people
who have partnered with them, advertizers, and to
anyone they decide to give my information.

Now, we are not just talking about messages
sent through e-mail lists, like this one, but,
private messages sent by one user directly to
another user. Even this would not be sooooo bad,
if it were not the fact that Google does not have
to have a valid reason, nor that Google must tell
you it has done this. There is no way to say,
"No," without its meaning you do not wish to have
that e-mail account. I now have a gmail account,
but have not used it.

Yahoo, OT other H, provides a way to prevent
much of what is automatic at Google, to happen at
Yahoo. No, it is not a guarantee. But it does
mean you will receive less spam, because it will
not be due to them. It also means that if they
believe they must share what is in your private
account with anyone, they must and will notify you
(of course, providing they are allowed to do so).

And, again, SFA preventing those not members
from reading what is on the list, that has to do
with the controls an owner and/or moderator use,
supposedly. I say supposedly (and, this is more
for Harry and John) because I just did a Google
search of my name. I did it without logging onto
Google. I found a listing of one of the times I
wrote something through this OperaUsers list.

Now, granted, I did not go to the OU site
and read anything, but, it was still there for
anyone to read. The date on that was July 18,
2006. I believe we were using the same server
program in use now? So much for debating the
privacy of one group mailing list over that of
another. Should be interesting to find what shows
up if all I do is to search for '"OU" group list'.

Julian.

[Ledgem]

Hi Julian,

No bubble has been burst - my reasons for disliking Yahoo and preferring Google have nothing to do with the EULAs, but rather because Yahoo's entire service feels much more cluttered and spam-riddled than Google's (not because Yahoo themselves are spamming, but because they are either targeted to a greater extent and/or do a poorer job of filtering it out than Google). I'm all for privacy - as you can see, I decline to use my full name here, although I do not harbor any illusions that a dedicated individual could not track back to my full identity - but a mailing list is certainly not a place where one should expect privacy of communications. Even if we were using private mail servers, unless we were encrypting our messages there would be no guarantee that the server maintainers were not snooping the communications, or that some security breach might throw our unencrypted communications to light.

If we're headed to Yahoo, I'll follow along. Honestly, beyond joining to the list, it doesn't make much of a difference.

Cheers,
David

Post by Julian

Post by Ledgem
I don't like Yahoo, either. I'd prefer Google Groups over it. Having a
privately-owned and run service sounds best to me, but of course that
doesn't have the lasting potential of Yahoo or Google. It may be
premature to be thinking of that, though!
David

Hate to burst your bubble, but, if you read
the EULA of Google's and the one of Yahoo's, you
will see a few interesting and important
differences. Actually, there are only two very
big differences between them: control and privacy.
Have you read either EULA? When I
considered a gmail account, I read the document.
It stated that Google had the right to share any
and all information it had about me and any and
all data found in anything I put through Google.
This included, but not limited to, names and
addresses of people and places, and any and all
content I might place in e-mail messages to people
and organizations. It continued by saying that if
I agree to the EULA, then I am agreeing to their
sharing that with government, retailers, people
who have partnered with them, advertizers, and to
anyone they decide to give my information.
Now, we are not just talking about messages
sent through e-mail lists, like this one, but,
private messages sent by one user directly to
another user. Even this would not be sooooo bad,
if it were not the fact that Google does not have
to have a valid reason, nor that Google must tell
you it has done this. There is no way to say,
"No," without its meaning you do not wish to have
that e-mail account. I now have a gmail account,
but have not used it.
Yahoo, OT other H, provides a way to prevent
much of what is automatic at Google, to happen at
Yahoo. No, it is not a guarantee. But it does
mean you will receive less spam, because it will
not be due to them. It also means that if they
believe they must share what is in your private
account with anyone, they must and will notify you
(of course, providing they are allowed to do so).
And, again, SFA preventing those not members
from reading what is on the list, that has to do
with the controls an owner and/or moderator use,
supposedly. I say supposedly (and, this is more
for Harry and John) because I just did a Google
search of my name. I did it without logging onto
Google. I found a listing of one of the times I
wrote something through this OperaUsers list.
Now, granted, I did not go to the OU site
and read anything, but, it was still there for
anyone to read. The date on that was July 18,
2006. I believe we were using the same server
program in use now? So much for debating the
privacy of one group mailing list over that of
another. Should be interesting to find what shows
up if all I do is to search for '"OU" group list'.
Julian.
--

[Webgenie]

John, you don't have to like Yahoo to be able to enjoy the groups.
Just have your settings the way you want them. Don't worry about
Yahoo inflicting advertising in your e-mail, since you use content
blocker all the time ;) I like the groups, but one thing that should
tell you how I feel about Yahoo is this - Yahoo partnered with AT&T to
provide DSL service in my area - "partnered" means they got an
opportunity for marketing and spying on DSL customers. The way they
did this was via the Yahoo browser and an installation CD that the
customer received from AT&T. Now, I'm not terribly geeky (though god
knows I try), but I researched on the internet to find out how to
install the DSL without the CD and the spyware browser/Yahoo software.
And I succeeded. That made me pretty happy for as long as I had DSL,
but in the end, I could not tolerate exploitation by AT&T and have
switched to much higher priced cable internet. And I find it worth
it.

Webgenie

Post by John Silby
Sorry, Bruce, but you just made my point for me. "Every message on the
list concludes with the following instructions:" Certainly, but you have
to actually JOIN a list and start receiving emails from it to be able to
read those instructions! My point was that it's not as easy to join a
Yahoo group as it it is to join a Mailman list; until Katrina pointed it
out I did not know that it's possible to join a list by sending a
"subscribe" email. I've already commented on that a couple of times.
Why are all you guys so sensitive about Yahoo? Your experience might be
different from mine (or you're prepared to put up with more rubbish than I
am), but the fact remains that my experience of Yahoo is not good and I
don't like it. Nothing you say is going to change that.
John
On Tue, 06 Jul 2010 02:51:34 +1000, Bruce Tober

Post by Bruce Tober
Or the same one with several people not totally informed.
I've belonged to several yahoo groups/lists. I HATE web-based
lists/groups. But with yahoo ones, that's not a problem. Subscribers
have the option to read online or to get messages to the list sent
directly to their mail box.

Post by John Silby
need to jump through hoops at Yahoo!, let alone set up an account at a
site - it's a simple matter of sending a "subscribe" email to the
appropriate address.

Having set up an account on yahoo one time, the subscriptions to lists
is as simple as sending an e-mail to the list owner. Every message on
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NameOfList/
Individual Email | Traditional
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NameOfList/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

--

--
Note: No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large
number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced

Nothing compares to FastMail - http://www.fastmail.fm/?STKI=352289

Prefer Switzerland?
https://secure.swissmail.org/Generalmail/swissmail/introduction/introduction.asp?br=126518

Dropbox - Back up your photos, files etc
https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTU4NDgzMzM5

[John Silby]

Webgenie, thanks, but "enjoy" and "Yahoo" are not two words that I'd
normally use in the same sentence, LOL.

John

Post by Webgenie
John, you don't have to like Yahoo to be able to enjoy the groups.
Just have your settings the way you want them. Don't worry about
Yahoo inflicting advertising in your e-mail, since you use content
blocker all the time ;) I like the groups, but one thing that should
tell you how I feel about Yahoo is this - Yahoo partnered with AT&T to
provide DSL service in my area - "partnered" means they got an
opportunity for marketing and spying on DSL customers. The way they
did this was via the Yahoo browser and an installation CD that the
customer received from AT&T. Now, I'm not terribly geeky (though god
knows I try), but I researched on the internet to find out how to
install the DSL without the CD and the spyware browser/Yahoo software.
And I succeeded. That made me pretty happy for as long as I had DSL,
but in the end, I could not tolerate exploitation by AT&T and have
switched to much higher priced cable internet. And I find it worth
it.
Webgenie

[Harry Lake]

Post by John Silby
Webgenie, thanks, but "enjoy" and "Yahoo" are not two words that I'd
normally use in the same sentence, LOL.

Hi John,

Post by John Silby
Why are all you guys so sensitive about Yahoo? Your experience might be
different from mine (or you're prepared to put up with more rubbish than I
am), but the fact remains that my experience of Yahoo is not good and I
don't like it. Nothing you say is going to change that.

and earlier

Post by John Silby
My point was that Mailman doesn't force
advertising on the user.

My dear chap, if you will pardon the expression, why not just try it
and see what it's like?

You write 'Why are all you guys so sensitive about Yahoo?' but as I
see it, it is not we who are so sensitive about Yahoo. In fact, I'm
beginning to wonder if I've got confused between what you and others
have written! (I'm serious here: I may genuinely have missed
something; it happens).

As to your second point: I can honestly say I don't remember seeing
any advertising on /any/ of the ten, fifteen or maybe twenty groups I
belong to, apart from stuff at the bottom of each message - but
that's all Yahoo-related, I think - I wouldn't know, I never read it!
I dunno, maybe I've got some special software that eliminates ads. If
so, I shall be happy to point you to its source.

To sum up: in recent years I have not noticed any advertising at all
on any of the Yahoo lists I belong to. That's not to say it isn't
there. I just haven't noticed it, so whether it's there or not I just
don't know. Whether that's because my senses are dulled or because I
have software installed that blocks advertising I do not know, but
there it is. Don't deprive us of your input straight away, give it a
go, see how it goes - and you can always withdraw if you so wish!

Cheers,

Harry


Opera 10.60, Java 1.?, Windows XP Home SP2 (desktop, netbook)/Vista
Home Premium (laptop), AVG Internet Security Suite 9.0.814
professional, Eudora 7.1.0.9 paid (from 13/11/06), WordPerfect X3
Professional build 13.0.0.565 (SP2), ClipMate 7.3.14, build 223
(updated 4/2010), Process Tamer (v2.08.02; by DonationCoder)(posibly
not on netbook); 3 GB RAM(desktop)/1GB (netbook)/2GB (laptop),
Pentium 4 @ 3.0 GHz since 6 October 2006 (desktop)(laptop: erm...).
Latest addition: Google Earth 4.2.0198.2451 (beta), 15 November 2007.
Last updated: July 2010, Opera 10.60.

[John Silby]

Harry, thanks, but I won't be joining the group. I already know what
Yahoo's like, and I don't like it. My input wouldn't be worth much,
anyway, so you won't be missing anything. I made the offer to set up a
list because I have the resources available to do that. I had no interest
in running or moderating the list.

I don't think I was being sensitive; after my inital statements I was
mostly just trying to respond to comments that others had made. I'm just
puzzled that people want to defend Yahoo - but then people rave about
Gmail and Apple I can't understand that, either, LOL.

John

Post by Julian
Hi John,
My dear chap, if you will pardon the expression, why not just try it
and see what it's like?
You write 'Why are all you guys so sensitive about Yahoo?' but as I
see it, it is not we who are so sensitive about Yahoo. In fact, I'm
beginning to wonder if I've got confused between what you and others
have written! (I'm serious here: I may genuinely have missed
something; it happens).
As to your second point: I can honestly say I don't remember seeing
any advertising on /any/ of the ten, fifteen or maybe twenty groups I
belong to, apart from stuff at the bottom of each message - but
that's all Yahoo-related, I think - I wouldn't know, I never read it!
I dunno, maybe I've got some special software that eliminates ads. If
so, I shall be happy to point you to its source.
To sum up: in recent years I have not noticed any advertising at all
on any of the Yahoo lists I belong to. That's not to say it isn't
there. I just haven't noticed it, so whether it's there or not I just
don't know. Whether that's because my senses are dulled or because I
have software installed that blocks advertising I do not know, but
there it is. Don't deprive us of your input straight away, give it a
go, see how it goes - and you can always withdraw if you so wish!
Cheers,
Harry

[Harry Lake]

Post by John Silby
Harry, thanks, but I won't be joining the group. I already know what
Yahoo's like, and I don't like it. My input wouldn't be worth much,
anyway, so you won't be missing anything. I made the offer to set up a
list because I have the resources available to do that. I had no interest
in running or moderating the list.
I don't think I was being sensitive; after my inital statements I was
mostly just trying to respond to comments that others had made. I'm just
puzzled that people want to defend Yahoo - but then people rave about
Gmail and Apple I can't understand that, either, LOL.

I know what you mean!

Cheers,
Harry

[Bruce Tober]

It took me no more than 3 or 4 minutes to subscribe to the yahoo list.
I went through no more steps than I did joining mailman or other types
of lists, nor did it take more time to do so.

Sometimes ya gotta swallow hard and quick so as not to taste tthe nasty
medicine. I hate Rupert Murdoch's politics and for years would not buy
any of his newspapers (though I ocassionally wrote freelance to some)
nor subscribe to his Sky TV service. But this year I finally had to
subscribe for a number of technical reasons that couldn't be resolved
otherwise.

At least yahoo isn't a microshit product. Bad enuf I have to use
winshit, fortunately I don't have to use their other crappy products.

Post by John Silby
Sorry, Bruce, but you just made my point for me. "Every message on the
list concludes with the following instructions:" Certainly, but you have to
actually JOIN a list and start receiving emails from it to be able to read
those instructions! My point was that it's not as easy to join a Yahoo group
as it it is to join a Mailman list; until Katrina pointed it out I did not know
that it's possible to join a list by sending a "subscribe" email. I've already
commented on that a couple of times.
Why are all you guys so sensitive about Yahoo? Your experience might be
different from mine (or you're prepared to put up with more rubbish than I
am), but the fact remains that my experience of Yahoo is not good and I
don't like it. Nothing you say is going to change that.
John

Post by Bruce Tober
Or the same one with several people not totally informed.
I've belonged to several yahoo groups/lists. I HATE web-based
lists/groups. But with yahoo ones, that's not a problem. Subscribers
have the option to read online or to get messages to the list sent
directly to their mail box.

Post by John Silby
need to jump through hoops at Yahoo!, let alone set up an account at a
site - it's a simple matter of sending a "subscribe" email to the
appropriate address.

Having set up an account on yahoo one time, the subscriptions to lists
is as simple as sending an e-mail to the list owner. Every message on
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NameOfList/
Individual Email | Traditional
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NameOfList/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

--

[Frank Lew]

I belonged to a Berkeley alumni list that was terminated by the
administration, and several members started a Yahoo Groups list to take its
place. Some members just didn't handle change well, and engaged in rounds
of "there's a hole in my bucket . . ." exercises and excuses to voice their
resistance to the Yahoo list approach. But the administration refused their
entreaties to bring back the old listserv, and the gripes eventually stopped
as users traveled the easy learning curve and adapted to the Yahoo
environment, or left the list. The list today functions pretty much like it
did in the old days. Its likely this new Opera Users group will evolve in
the same manner.

John Silby's protestations would be more convincing if the changes require
continuing efforts by list users. But we're only talking about a one-time
bit of work that requires a few minutes and modest effort. The Yahoo group
is up and running. Let's get on with it.

Frank



----- Original Message -----
From: "John Silby" <***@fastmail.com.au>
To: "Bruce Tober" <***@star-dot-star.net>; "Using Opera"
<opera-***@opera.com>
Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 5:01 PM
Subject: Re: [OU] Ang: Announcement: Opera-Users mailing list to be closed
in late July, 2010

Post by John Silby
Sorry, Bruce, but you just made my point for me. "Every message on the
list concludes with the following instructions:" Certainly, but you have
to actually JOIN a list and start receiving emails from it to be able to
read those instructions! My point was that it's not as easy to join a
Yahoo group as it it is to join a Mailman list; until Katrina pointed it
out I did not know that it's possible to join a list by sending a
"subscribe" email. I've already commented on that a couple of times.
Why are all you guys so sensitive about Yahoo? Your experience might be
different from mine (or you're prepared to put up with more rubbish than I
am), but the fact remains that my experience of Yahoo is not good and I
don't like it. Nothing you say is going to change that.
John
On Tue, 06 Jul 2010 02:51:34 +1000, Bruce Tober

Post by Bruce Tober
Or the same one with several people not totally informed.
I've belonged to several yahoo groups/lists. I HATE web-based
lists/groups. But with yahoo ones, that's not a problem. Subscribers
have the option to read online or to get messages to the list sent
directly to their mail box.

Post by John Silby
need to jump through hoops at Yahoo!, let alone set up an account at a
site - it's a simple matter of sending a "subscribe" email to the
appropriate address.

Having set up an account on yahoo one time, the subscriptions to lists
is as simple as sending an e-mail to the list owner. Every message on
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NameOfList/
Individual Email | Traditional
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NameOfList/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

--

[John Silby]

LOL, Frank, I think you missed the point and you seem to have
misinterpreted my posts. I wasn't "protesting" about anything. If you want
to join a Yahoo group go for it. I don't like Yahoo, and I won't be
joining a group there.

John

Post by Frank Lew
John Silby's protestations would be more convincing if the changes
require continuing efforts by list users. But we're only talking about
a one-time bit of work that requires a few minutes and modest effort.
The Yahoo group is up and running. Let's get on with it.
Frank

[John Silby]

Post by JAMES KING
I don't know what issues you may have and with Yahoo in the past but
it's not a bad experience now. Give it a shot, if you like. What ever
you found to your
liking before will still be here now. Who knows, it may even die a slow
death. Anyway, I think the NEW list will be better with you, than
without you. BTW how > will a 'list' differ from a 'group'? Functionally
they will be the same. Just not the same software.

In my experience Yahoo! at best is a mediocre experience, whether it's
groups or email accounts. I never found anything there to my liking. I
won't be "giving it a shot", thanks.

If you're asking what the difference is between a Yahoo! group and a
mailing list like this one then we must be living on different planets.
They function in an entirely different way and are administered in a
completely different way. Moreover, to join a list like this one you don't
need to jump through hoops at Yahoo!, let alone set up an account at a
site - it's a simple matter of sending a "subscribe" email to the
appropriate address.

Post by JAMES KING
Personally, I'd prefer that we take up John's offer to set up a list.

My offer still stands if anyone is interested. If enough members of this
list show interest, then we can decide on an administrator and moderator/s
and I'll set it up, with whatever name you guys want.

John

[JAMES KING]

On Sun, 04 Jul 2010 20:00:14 -0400, John Silby <***@fastmail.com.au>
wrote:

Well I got this message twice (so far) I guess technology isn't as hot as
one might hope for.

I belong to four other yahoo groups. None of them spam me. I have belonged
to lists too. And one of them did go nuts once when someone linked his
returns to the digest or some such. It looped and the hardware person had
to get involved directly. Point being nothing is bullet proof.

If it's not your cupa tea... then I guess you wont be joining us. Although
the door is always open.

If you start a list, please post a notice here so *I* can also monitor
whatever goes that way. I'd like to stay as current as possible.

I hope I didn't offend you in anyway, it was not my intention.

Post by John Silby

Post by JAMES KING
I don't know what issues you may have and with Yahoo in the past but
it's not a bad experience now. Give it a shot, if you like. What ever
you found to your
liking before will still be here now. Who knows, it may even die a slow
death. Anyway, I think the NEW list will be better with you, than
without you. BTW how > will a 'list' differ from a 'group'?
Functionally they will be the same. Just not the same software.

In my experience Yahoo! at best is a mediocre experience, whether it's
groups or email accounts. I never found anything there to my liking. I
won't be "giving it a shot", thanks.
If you're asking what the difference is between a Yahoo! group and a
mailing list like this one then we must be living on different planets.
They function in an entirely different way and are administered in a
completely different way. Moreover, to join a list like this one you don't
need to jump through hoops at Yahoo!, let alone set up an account at a
site - it's a simple matter of sending a "subscribe" email to the
appropriate address.

Post by JAMES KING
Personally, I'd prefer that we take up John's offer to set up a list.

My offer still stands if anyone is interested. If enough members of this
list show interest, then we can decide on an administrator and
moderator/s
and I'll set it up, with whatever name you guys want.
John
--

[John Silby]

That was more my fault than the technology's. I was subscribed with a
disposable address, which meant that I had to put it in the "reply to"
field whenever I posted to the list. In the last couple of days (but never
before) the software has bounced my posts, thinking I was not a member.
Sending the post again solved the problem. In this case I decided to
change my subscribed address after my first attempt to post bounced. Both
messages actually got through eventually, so sorry everyone.

John

Post by JAMES KING
Well I got this message twice (so far) I guess technology isn't as hot
as one might hope for.

[Webgenie]

I don't really care whether we do this with a Yahoo group or
otherwise, as long as we still have Opera users communicating and
assisting each other in the use of the browser and sharing experiences
with it. When I've been in Yahoo groups, it has rarely been necessary
to go to the website. You only do that to moderate or view pictures.
The rest is just like e-mailing back and forth.

Webgenie

Post by John Silby

Post by JAMES KING
I don't know what issues you may have and with Yahoo in the past but
it's not a bad experience now. Give it a shot, if you like. What ever
you found to your
liking before will still be here now. Who knows, it may even die a slow
death. Anyway, I think the NEW list will be better with you, than
without you. BTW how > will a 'list' differ from a 'group'?
Functionally
they will be the same. Just not the same software.

In my experience Yahoo! at best is a mediocre experience, whether it's
groups or email accounts. I never found anything there to my liking. I
won't be "giving it a shot", thanks.
If you're asking what the difference is between a Yahoo! group and a
mailing list like this one then we must be living on different
planets.
They function in an entirely different way and are administered in a
completely different way. Moreover, to join a list like this one you don't
need to jump through hoops at Yahoo!, let alone set up an account at a
site - it's a simple matter of sending a "subscribe" email to the
appropriate address.
On Mon, 05 Jul 2010 05:54:55 +1000, Katrina Knight

Post by JAMES KING
Personally, I'd prefer that we take up John's offer to set up a list.

My offer still stands if anyone is interested. If enough members of this
list show interest, then we can decide on an administrator and
moderator/s
and I'll set it up, with whatever name you guys want.
John
--

--
Note: No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large
number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced

Nothing compares to FastMail - http://www.fastmail.fm/?STKI=352289

Prefer Switzerland?
https://secure.swissmail.org/Generalmail/swissmail/introduction/introduction.asp?br=126518

Dropbox - Back up your photos, files etc
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[Julian]

Hello John:

You wrote:
---- snip ----

Post by John Silby
In my experience Yahoo! at best is a mediocre experience, whether it's
groups or email accounts. I never found anything there to my liking. I
won't be "giving it a shot", thanks.
If you're asking what the difference is between a Yahoo! group and a
mailing list like this one then we must be living on different planets.
They function in an entirely different way and are administered in a
completely different way. Moreover, to join a list like this one you don't
need to jump through hoops at Yahoo!, let alone set up an account at a
site - it's a simple matter of sending a "subscribe" email to the
appropriate address.

---- snip ----

Post by John Silby
John
--

I am subscribed to several YahooGroups; and,
I am a moderator on two of them. I also have a
YahooMail account, which means I am a registered
Yahoo! user. This way I have a choice of how to
go about joining YahooGroups' lists.

The simplest way, if I am sent an invitation
by the owner or a moderator of a YahooGroup, is to
reply to the e-mail notice by having the word,
"subscribe," indicated in the subject line. This
is the same manner which has been available with
all lists to which I have joined, irrespective of
what or which type of server/program is used. The
same is true to unsubscribe from a list.

The alternate manner to join is to first
become a member of Yahoo, then to go to the
YahooGroups area, and click on "pamiga." At that
point to fill out the "Request to join" stuff.

Another commonality is that the e-mail
address you wish the list to consider as your
official e-mail address is the one you indicate,
either in joining the list, or in contacting the
owner/moderator, once you have joined. This means
you never have to be a member of Yahoo, and you
never have to have an e-mail address at Yahoo.

There is not much else I can say positively
nor negatively about YahooGroups lists. It has
always appeared to behave like most other such
servers/programs.

Hope this actually helps.

Regards,

Julian.

[John Silby]

Thanks, Julian, but I already knew most of that. I am a registered user at
Yahoo, a member of several groups there, I use Yahoo IM (but not their IM
client) and I even have an email address there, although I never use that,
even for the groups I belong to.

The point I was trying to make is that usually there are several steps to
joining a group at Yahoo, and it's a pain in the neck. I've never had
anyone send me an invitation to join a group, so I didn't know that was
possible. To join a group I've always had to go to the site, sign in, find
the group I wanted to join, and go through the signup procedure. Until
Katrina pointed it out I didn't know it was possible to subscribe to a
group by email - the same as with this mailing list. The fact that I
didn't know that is another mark against Yahoo, since they apparently
don't make that feature known (and in any case, even if I had known about
that feature, I'd still need to know the name of the group I wanted to
join - not possible if I was simply browsing the groups looking for
something of interest to me). Even if I follow the link which James posted
on this list to the new group he has set up I have to enter my password
(and I get a spiel telling me why I need a Yahoo ID). As I said, Yahoo
wants you to jump through hoops. It would be nice if they made it obvious
that you don't need to be a Yahoo member to join groups there, and made it
clear what the alternatives are. They don't seem to do that.

There are several reasons I don't like Yahoo, and between us Katrina and I
have covered most of those in our posts to this group. Another one I just
thought of is that, when I followed the link to James's group I was able
to read all of the messages posted there even though I didn't join. Posts
to this group are accessible only to group members. As I also said
earlier, Yahoo groups and Mailman mailing lists such as this one are
vastly different.

Sorry, but I can't get excited about anything at Yahoo.

John

I am subscribed to several YahooGroups; and, I am a moderator on
two of them. I also have a YahooMail account, which means I am a
registered Yahoo! user. This way I have a choice of how to go about
joining YahooGroups' lists.
The simplest way, if I am sent an invitation by the owner or a
moderator of a YahooGroup, is to reply to the e-mail notice by having
the word, "subscribe," indicated in the subject line. This is the same
manner which has been available with all lists to which I have joined,
irrespective of what or which type of server/program is used. The same
is true to unsubscribe from a list.
The alternate manner to join is to first become a member of Yahoo,
then to go to the YahooGroups area, and click on "pamiga." At that
point to fill out the "Request to join" stuff.
Another commonality is that the e-mail address you wish the list
to consider as your official e-mail address is the one you indicate,
either in joining the list, or in contacting the owner/moderator, once
you have joined. This means you never have to be a member of Yahoo, and
you never have to have an e-mail address at Yahoo.
There is not much else I can say positively nor negatively about
YahooGroups lists. It has always appeared to behave like most other
such servers/programs.
Hope this actually helps.
Regards,
Julian.
--

[Julian]

Hi John,

What you do not know, and a lot are aware,
is that you, as the owner or moderator, can set
how the YahooGroup can be accessed, and what can
happen. That includes not allowing anyone except
members of that group to be able to read stuff on
the site; that includes not allowing anything to
be able to appear when doing a Google search,
except for someone finding out that such a group
list exists; that includes only allowing those
whom the owner and/or moderator approve, to be on
the list; and more; it even includes not allowing
Yahoo to tell its advertizing partners about your
group in ways that disclose anything about them,
except what your group publically states.

Unfortunately, the two types of groups which
seem to be most known, are those with what is
called "Complete" control, and those which are
known as "Open." People usually hate dealing with
both. The first means that the owner or a
moderator must literally read and approve each and
every message sent to and through the group, and
then decide whether to allow it to continue, or to
kill it. The second means that anyone can join
and anyone can post anything without regard to
anything, including spamming and scamming. We can
have a group which is someplace inbetween those
extremes.

Does this help?

Julian.

[John Silby]

LOL, not really. It doesn't change my opinion of Yahoo, but perhaps
someone needs to tell James to tighten his security!

Advertising? Hmmm, another mark against Yahoo, LOL. No advertising with
Mailman!

John

Post by Julian
Hi John,
What you do not know, and a lot are aware, is that you, as the
owner or moderator, can set how the YahooGroup can be accessed, and what
can happen. That includes not allowing anyone except members of that
group to be able to read stuff on the site; that includes not allowing
anything to be able to appear when doing a Google search, except for
someone finding out that such a group list exists; that includes only
allowing those whom the owner and/or moderator approve, to be on the
list; and more; it even includes not allowing Yahoo to tell its
advertizing partners about your group in ways that disclose anything
about them, except what your group publically states.
Unfortunately, the two types of groups which seem to be most
known, are those with what is called "Complete" control, and those which
are known as "Open." People usually hate dealing with both. The first
means that the owner or a moderator must literally read and approve each
and every message sent to and through the group, and then decide whether
to allow it to continue, or to kill it. The second means that anyone
can join and anyone can post anything without regard to anything,
including spamming and scamming. We can have a group which is someplace
inbetween those extremes.
Does this help?
Julian.
--

[JAMES KING]

Post by John Silby
LOL, not really. It doesn't change my opinion of Yahoo, but perhaps
someone needs to tell James to tighten his security!

I announced else where that membership and messages are screened (for the
time being). There isn't any more I can do.

Post by John Silby
Advertising? Hmmm, another mark against Yahoo, LOL. No advertising with
Mailman!
John

Post by Julian
Hi John,
What you do not know, and a lot are aware, is that you, as the
owner or moderator, can set how the YahooGroup can be accessed, and
what can happen. That includes not allowing anyone except members of
that group to be able to read stuff on the site; that includes not
allowing anything to be able to appear when doing a Google search,
except for someone finding out that such a group list exists; that
includes only allowing those whom the owner and/or moderator approve,
to be on the list; and more; it even includes not allowing Yahoo to
tell its advertizing partners about your group in ways that disclose
anything about them, except what your group publically states.
Unfortunately, the two types of groups which seem to be most
known, are those with what is called "Complete" control, and those
which are known as "Open." People usually hate dealing with both. The
first means that the owner or a moderator must literally read and
approve each and every message sent to and through the group, and then
decide whether to allow it to continue, or to kill it. The second
means that anyone can join and anyone can post anything without regard
to anything, including spamming and scamming. We can have a group
which is someplace inbetween those extremes.
Does this help?
Julian.
--

--

[John Silby]

I was referring to what Julian said: "...the owner or moderator, can set
how the YahooGroup can be accessed, and what can happen. That includes
not allowing anyone except members of that group to be able to read stuff
on the site..."

So, apparently, there is more you can do. As I said, I was able to read
all of the messages in your group without joining.

John

Post by JAMES KING
I announced else where that membership and messages are screened (for
the time being). There isn't any more I can do.

[Webgenie]

Sounds like you're talking about a public versus private group,
inasmuch as group posts can only be read by members. I'd suppose that
is possible to set up, but I haven't checked.

Webgenie

Post by John Silby
I was referring to what Julian said: "...the owner or moderator, can set
how the YahooGroup can be accessed, and what can happen. That
includes
not allowing anyone except members of that group to be able to read stuff
on the site..."
So, apparently, there is more you can do. As I said, I was able to read
all of the messages in your group without joining.
John
On Tue, 06 Jul 2010 02:28:01 +1000, JAMES KING

Post by JAMES KING
I announced else where that membership and messages are screened (for
the time being). There isn't any more I can do.

--

--
Note: No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large
number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced

Nothing compares to FastMail - http://www.fastmail.fm/?STKI=352289

Prefer Switzerland?
https://secure.swissmail.org/Generalmail/swissmail/introduction/introduction.asp?br=126518

Dropbox - Back up your photos, files etc
https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTU4NDgzMzM5

[Webgenie]

Advertising? That is easily kept to a minimum with AdBlock/content
blocker. If I had to look at advertising, I would not be using much
of the internet.

Webgenie

Post by John Silby
LOL, not really. It doesn't change my opinion of Yahoo, but perhaps
someone needs to tell James to tighten his security!
Advertising? Hmmm, another mark against Yahoo, LOL. No advertising with
Mailman!
John

Post by Julian
Hi John,
What you do not know, and a lot are aware, is that you, as the
owner or moderator, can set how the YahooGroup can be accessed, and what
can happen. That includes not allowing anyone except members of that
group to be able to read stuff on the site; that includes not
allowing
anything to be able to appear when doing a Google search, except for
someone finding out that such a group list exists; that includes only
allowing those whom the owner and/or moderator approve, to be on the
list; and more; it even includes not allowing Yahoo to tell its
advertizing partners about your group in ways that disclose anything
about them, except what your group publically states.
Unfortunately, the two types of groups which seem to be most
known, are those with what is called "Complete" control, and those which
are known as "Open." People usually hate dealing with both. The first
means that the owner or a moderator must literally read and approve each
and every message sent to and through the group, and then decide whether
to allow it to continue, or to kill it. The second means that anyone
can join and anyone can post anything without regard to anything,
including spamming and scamming. We can have a group which is someplace
inbetween those extremes.
Does this help?
Julian.
--

--

--
Note: No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large
number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced

Nothing compares to FastMail - http://www.fastmail.fm/?STKI=352289

Prefer Switzerland?
https://secure.swissmail.org/Generalmail/swissmail/introduction/introduction.asp?br=126518

Dropbox - Back up your photos, files etc
https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTU4NDgzMzM5

[John Silby]

LOL, blocking it's not the point. I do that all the time, and it's one of
the reasons I love Opera. My point was that Mailman doesn't force
advertising on the user.

John

Post by Webgenie
Advertising? That is easily kept to a minimum with AdBlock/content
blocker. If I had to look at advertising, I would not be using much
of the internet.
Webgenie

[Harry Lake]

Post by r***@privat.utfors.se

----Ursprungligt meddelande----
Due to the low traffic volume, and the fact that we have several other
forums for discussions about Opera, we have decided to shut down the
Opera-Users mailing list. You can expect the list to be closed for new
mail towards the end of July, 2010.

*aargh*
This is the end of the world as I know it. Ouch.
Do I really have to become a forumite now? That would take a
personality make over
unheard of in my universe.

Then why don't I set up a Yahoo Group - unless anyone else would like
the job of owner/moderator, that is? I'm not actively seeking to run
another list. Not that this one is ever any trouble, as far as I
recall (except way back I seem to remember the occasional contretemps).

Harry

[Don Esslemont]

Post by Harry Lake
Then why don't I set up a Yahoo Group - unless anyone else would like
the job of owner/moderator, that is? I'm not actively seeking to run
another list. Not that this one is ever any trouble, as far as I
recall (except way back I seem to remember the occasional
contretemps).

That seems an excellent plan. I rely entirely on mailing lists to keep
me informed of important changes. If Harry is willing to administer the
list I would he grateful, and also happy to help.

[JAMES KING]

Post by Harry Lake

Post by r***@privat.utfors.se

----Ursprungligt meddelande----
Due to the low traffic volume, and the fact that we have several other
forums for discussions about Opera, we have decided to shut down the
Opera-Users mailing list. You can expect the list to be closed for new
mail towards the end of July, 2010.

*aargh*
This is the end of the world as I know it. Ouch.
Do I really have to become a forumite now? That would take a
personality make overunheard of in my universe.

Then why don't I set up a Yahoo Group - unless anyone else would like
the job of owner/moderator, that is? I'm not actively seeking to run
another list. Not >that this one is ever any trouble, as far as I recall
(except way back I seem to remember the occasional contretemps).
Harry

I just now looked and there already exists a operausers group (it's one
word) the messages (the last few) seemed to be spam.

Do we want to start another group so similarly named 'Opera Users OU'.
Don't know if the OU part is automatically included or it might have to be
intentionally placed in the title. Or we could just learn to call it by
whatever it is once we learn that name.

[Joel Kellner]

I vote yes.


All the best, all the time,
Joel
"There is absolutely no inevitability as long as there is a willingness to
contemplate what is happening."

... why don't I set up a Yahoo Group - unless anyone else would like the job
of owner/moderator, that is? I'm not actively seeking to run another list.
Not that this one is ever any trouble, as far as I recall (except way back I
seem to remember the occasional contretemps).

Harry

I just now looked and there already exists a operausers group (it's one
word) the messages (the last few) seemed to be spam.

Do we want to start another group so similarly named 'Opera Users OU'.
Don't know if the OU part is automatically included or it might have to be
intentionally placed in the title. Or we could just learn to call it by
whatever it is once we learn that name.

[Pres]

Spam has been the main problem with Yahoo groups, but a moderator
should be able to handle that. I was still on the old yahoo operausers
group until I recently changed email addresses. The spam traffic was
light enough to just delete the few making it through junk mail filters.
The only problem was that no Opera traffic was on it.


--------------------------------------------
Prescott Smith ***@yahoo.com





_____

From: opera-users-***@opera.com
[mailto:opera-users-***@opera.com] On Behalf Of JAMES KING
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 9:19 PM
To: Using Opera
Subject: Re: [OU] Ang: Announcement: Opera-Users mailing list - Replaced
or mourned?

----Ursprungligt meddelande----
Due to the low traffic volume, and the fact that we have several other
forums for discussions about Opera, we have decided to shut down the
Opera-Users mailing list. You can expect the list to be closed for new
mail towards the end of July, 2010.

*aargh*

This is the end of the world as I know it. Ouch.

Do I really have to become a forumite now? That would take a personality
make over
unheard of in my universe.


Then why don't I set up a Yahoo Group - unless anyone else would like
the job of owner/moderator, that is? I'm not actively seeking to run
another list. Not that this one is ever any trouble, as far as I recall
(except way back I seem to remember the occasional contretemps).

Harry



I just now looked and there already exists a operausers group (it's one
word) the messages (the last few) seemed to be spam.

Do we want to start another group so similarly named 'Opera Users OU'.
Don't know if the OU part is automatically included or it might have to
be intentionally placed in the title. Or we could just learn to call it
by whatever it is once we learn that name.

[Harry Lake]

At 04:18 03/07/2010 CEST, James King wrote:
...

Post by JAMES KING
I just now looked and there already exists a operausers group (it's
one word) the messages (the last few) seemed to be spam.
Do we want to start another group so similarly named 'Opera Users
OU'. Don't know if the OU part is automatically included or it might
have to be intentionally placed in the title. Or we could just learn
to call it by whatever it is once we learn that name.

On Yahoo Groups, setting the '[OU]' is a simple matter for the owner/moderator.

However, I like the sound of John Silby's offer. Would that have
facilities for us to upload e.g. screenshots, John? As I'm sure you
know, Yahoo Groups have such facilities.

Harry

[John Silby]

Hi, Harry

Sorry to take so long to reply; there seems to be a long lag between the
time someone posts and the time I receive it.

The Mailman software which my hosting accounts use (the same as that which
runs this list) can be set to allow attachments, so the answer is "yes".

I suggested another mailing list because I don't much like Yahoo! Groups,
and my one experience of Google Groups was not good (although that was
several years ago, so it might have changed). I have domains and hosting
accounts I'm not using, so hence the offer.

However, another member seems to have pre-empted us and set up a Yahoo!
group. I'm still happy to set up a mailing list (but I'd prefer if someone
else would administer it) if members of the list would like to go that way.

John

Post by Harry Lake
However, I like the sound of John Silby's offer. Would that have
facilities for us to upload e.g. screenshots, John? As I'm sure you
know, Yahoo Groups have such facilities.
Harry

[JAMES KING]

Post by John Silby
Hi, Harry
Sorry to take so long to reply; there seems to be a long lag between the
time someone posts and the time I receive it.
The Mailman software which my hosting accounts use (the same as that
which runs this list) can be set to allow attachments, so the answer is
"yes".
I suggested another mailing list because I don't much like Yahoo!
Groups, and my one experience of Google Groups was not good (although
that was several years ago, so it might have changed). I have domains
and hosting accounts I'm not using, so hence the offer.
However, another member seems to have pre-empted us and set up a Yahoo!
group. I'm still happy to set up a mailing list (but I'd prefer if
someone else would administer it) if members of the list would like to
go that way.

It seemed like everyone wanted something to happen. But no one wanted to
step up. I have a little experience with running a group on yahoo. My
other group is very quiet. In fact it's mostly automated messages. And
this group of people fromn the Opera site seem very well mannered (if that
were not so I would not ahve started the new yahoo group.

As a moderator I'm a pussy cat. It's not really _MY_ group. I just started
it. I do retain control to a small extent. If someone makes big waves and
other object, then steps can be taken to iron out whatever the problem is.
I'm not a controlling person. I drive truck and wont be around all that
much.

I don't know what issues you may have and with Yahoo in the past but it's
not a bad experience now. Give it a shot, if you like. What ever you found
to your liking before will still be here now. Who knows, it may even die a
slow death.

Anyway, I think the NEW list will be better with you, than without you.

BTW how will a 'list' differ from a 'group'? Functionally they will be the
same. Just not the same software.

Post by John Silby
John

Post by Harry Lake
However, I like the sound of John Silby's offer. Would that have
facilities for us to upload e.g. screenshots, John? As I'm sure you
know, Yahoo Groups have such facilities.
Harry

--

[Harry Lake]

Post by JAMES KING

Post by John Silby
Hi, Harry
Sorry to take so long to reply; there seems to be a long lag between the
time someone posts and the time I receive it.
The Mailman software which my hosting accounts use (the same as that
which runs this list) can be set to allow attachments, so the answer is
"yes".
I suggested another mailing list because I don't much like Yahoo!
Groups, and my one experience of Google Groups was not good (although
that was several years ago, so it might have changed). I have domains
and hosting accounts I'm not using, so hence the offer.
However, another member seems to have pre-empted us and set up a Yahoo!
group. I'm still happy to set up a mailing list (but I'd prefer if
someone else would administer it) if members of the list would like to
go that way.

It seemed like everyone wanted something to happen. But no one wanted to
step up.

Just to put the record straight (unless somehow I'm misremembering),
it wasn't a matter of no one stepping up: at least two people did: I
offered to set up a Yahoo group, then John Silby offered to host a
list (thereby pleasing those who don't like Yahoo Groups). Then you
discovered there already was a Yahoo Opera group, and then you set up
a new one. I have no problem with that except that I was unaware a
consensus had been reached.

Post by JAMES KING
I have a little experience with running a group on yahoo. My
other group is very quiet. In fact it's mostly automated messages. And
this group of people fromn the Opera site seem very well mannered (if that
were not so I would not ahve started the new yahoo group.
As a moderator I'm a pussy cat. It's not really _MY_ group. I just started
it. I do retain control to a small extent. If someone makes big waves and
other object, then steps can be taken to iron out whatever the problem is.
I'm not a controlling person. I drive truck and wont be around all that
much.

We need someone to be around often enough to get rid of fakes. I
trust you are planning to moderate new members' first and possibly
second messages? (By new members I mean people who weren't previously
members of this list.)

Post by JAMES KING
I don't know what issues you may have and with Yahoo in the past but it's
not a bad experience now. Give it a shot, if you like. What ever you found
to your liking before will still be here now. Who knows, it may even die a
slow death.
Anyway, I think the NEW list will be better with you, than without you.
BTW how will a 'list' differ from a 'group'? Functionally they will be the
same. Just not the same software.

In my experience of about ten or fifteen lists over ten or fifteen
years, the two terms have been interchangeable. With the same Yahoo software!

So does this mean we are all agreed that we migrate to James's new list?

Harry

[Webgenie]

I'm going to miss the list, as I always read and see who is posting,
even though I don't often contribute. I haven't been on the forums in
years.

Webgenie

Post by r***@privat.utfors.se

Due to the low traffic volume, and the fact that we have several
other

forums for discussions about Opera, we have decided to shut down the
Opera-Users mailing list. You can expect the list to be closed for new
mail
towards the end of July, 2010.

Post by r***@privat.utfors.se
*aargh*
This is the end of the world as I know it. Ouch.
Do I really have to become a forumite now? That would take a
personality make

over unheard of in my universe.

Post by r***@privat.utfors.se
Sniffle.

Seconded.
Sob :-((
 
 
 
John
 
2/07/2010
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[Kenneth Knox]

[snip]


So does this mean we are all agreed that we migrate to James's new list?

Sounds good to me :-)
Ken
 


--
Unsubscribe: mailto:opera-users-***@opera.com?subject=unsubscribe

[Harry Lake]

Post by Kenneth Knox
[snip]
So does this mean we are all agreed that we migrate to James's new list?
Sounds good to me :-)

When we've all moved, perhaps you could shorten the tag in the
subject line, James?

Harry

[JAMES KING]

So does this mean we are all agreed that we migrate to James' new list?
Sounds good to me :-)
When we've all moved, perhaps you could shorten the tag in the subject
line, James?
Harry

Looks pretty short to me now.

[Opera_Users] subject

The group is identified in my Mail listings panel as:
Opera_Users.yahoogroups.com
I don't think I can shorten it more than that. Oh, did you mean down to
[OU]?

[Harry Lake]

So does this mean we are all agreed that we migrate to James' new list?
Sounds good to me :-)
When we've all moved, perhaps you could shorten the tag in the
subject line, James?
Harry
Looks pretty short to me now.
[Opera_Users] subject
The group is identified in my Mail listings panel
as: Opera_Users.yahoogroups.com
I don't think I can shorten it more than that. Oh, did you mean down to [OU]?

Well, yes, but maybe it's confusing. Actually, I now find that my
filters for Opera Users messages don't use the tag as I thought they
did. Nevertheless, in my experience something really short is a good
idea simnply because it takes up less space, which can be useful if
the subject is long. It all depends how you display your mails, of
course. Nowadays I display messages maximized in Eudora, so it
doesn't make much difference, but on the occasions when I do display
'restored', length of subject field can be a problem.

Cheers,

Harry

[unknown]

I wish I had known about this before signing up with Yahoo, as it is
annoying to have to log in to Yahoo just to see if msgs might be
there.

How does the procedure below work, and Is there a way to receive the
Yahoo posts via Gmail or other client?

Bart
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Moreover, to join a list like this one you don't need to jump through
hoops at Yahoo!, let alone set up an account at a site - it's a simple
matter of sending a "subscribe" email to the appropriate address.

Actually, you don't have to jump through hoops with Yahoo either. You can
just send a message to the Yahoo group's subscription address.
Unfortunately, many people never realize that because Yahoo doesn't
publicize that capability much. I don't like Yahoo much, but they do provide
the ability to do basic management of your subscriptions without having to
join Yahoo and deal with it via a web page.
--
Katrina Knight
--

[unknown]

Thanks very much, Katrina.

--------------------------------------------------------

Post by unknown
I wish I had known about this before signing up with Yahoo, as it is
annoying to have to log in to Yahoo just to see if msgs might be there.
How does the procedure below work, and Is there a way to receive the Yahoo
posts via Gmail or other client?

There are two ways to deal with Yahoo groups. One is to sign up for a Yahoo
account then join the group. When you do that, you can choose whether or not
to receive mail, and at which address to receive it. You can connect a
number of addresses to your Yahoo account if you like and switch between
them as desired. There's definitely no need to go to the website to read
messages, nor is there any need to use a Yahoo mailing address even if you
sign up via the website.
The other way to do it is to subscribe to the group by sending a message to
--
Katrina Knight
--

[D. Digger]

Post by John Silby
The point I was trying to make is that usually there are several steps to
joining a group at Yahoo, and it's a pain in the neck.

LOL

If you feel this bad about this matter, I truly feel sorry for you, as the life in general must be a pain in the neck with so many things you can't control over or choose from.

Post by John Silby
Another one I just thought of is that, when I followed the link to James's
group I was able to read all of the messages posted there even though I didn't join.

Any reason why you shouldn't be able to read all of the messages without joining in Opera's case? I think it's a reasonable and a positive thing and in benefit for everyone. Unless you are going to post some secrets on the mailing list, which would be pretty silly.

Post by John Silby
Sorry, but I can't get excited about anything at Yahoo.

I'm not excited one bit about Yahoo, but it's not a pain in the neck, either.

Come on, this is about Opera, not about you.

LOL




_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969

[John Silby]

Ever heard of a thing called privacy?

Post by D. Digger
Any reason why you shouldn't be able to read all of the messages without
joining in Opera's case? I think it's a reasonable and a positive thing
and in benefit for everyone. Unless you are going to post some secrets
on the mailing list, which would be pretty silly.

[Bruce Tober]

Post by John Silby
Ever heard of a thing called privacy?

Are you sure you don't have this group mixed up with "friends reunited"
or "classmates" or "the private lives of John Silby" lists? There is
nothing I've ever read on this list that could in any way b considered
"private".

[John Silby]

The messages sent to the Yahoo group that James started were publicly
readable. That's not something that I'd want if I was a member; messages
should only be accessible to the members of the group.

John

On Tue, 06 Jul 2010 21:01:41 +1000, Bruce Tober

Post by Bruce Tober
Are you sure you don't have this group mixed up with "friends reunited"
or "classmates" or "the private lives of John Silby" lists? There is
nothing I've ever read on this list that could in any way b considered
"private".>

[Harry Lake]

Post by John Silby
The messages sent to the Yahoo group that James started were publicly
readable. That's not something that I'd want if I was a member; messages
should only be accessible to the members of the group.

Yes, but that was only for a few hours and has now been fixed, surely?
Otherwise, of course, your point is perfectly valid (as I see it).

Harry

[John Silby]

Harry

I just checked, and I could still read all messages and I wasn't even
logged in to my Yahoo account. If I was a member I'd consider that a
serious breach of the group's privacy.

John

Post by Harry Lake

Post by John Silby
The messages sent to the Yahoo group that James started were publicly
readable. That's not something that I'd want if I was a member; messages
should only be accessible to the members of the group.

Yes, but that was only for a few hours and has now been fixed, surely?
Otherwise, of course, your point is perfectly valid (as I see it).
Harry

[Harry Lake]

Post by John Silby
Harry
I just checked, and I could still read all messages and I wasn't even
logged in to my Yahoo account. If I was a member I'd consider that a
serious breach of the group's privacy.

Hmm. My girlfriend has just gone to the site, read all our mails
(until she got bored, after 15 secs), and sent me a message, for
which she had to log in to Yahoo Groups (of which she is already a
member). I'm not quite sure what all this means. I sort of feel it
can't be as bad as it looks/sounds, but then...

H

[Andre Wichartz]

Post by John Silby
I just checked, and I could still read all messages and I wasn't even
logged in to my Yahoo account. If I was a member I'd consider that a
serious breach of the group's privacy.

This list's archive is also available to anyone:

http://list.opera.com/pipermail/opera-users/

[John Silby]

Andre (and Julian)

Stone the crows! You're right. I'd never checked that, and would have been
unhappy if I had. Too late now, LOL. For someone normally very particular
about my privacy I slipped up badly [wipes egg off face].

Other lists I've been on had private archives; I guess the others led me
to assume that all list owners would set up private archives. As with what
you say about Yahoo, Julian, it's a matter of a setting in the mailing
list control panel.

John

On Wed, 07 Jul 2010 01:33:42 +1000, Andre Wichartz

Post by Andre Wichartz
http://list.opera.com/pipermail/opera-users/

[Webgenie]

This just in -
http://nl.com.com/view_online_newsletter.jsp?list_id=e415 - Opera 10.6
to be released

Webgenie

[Harry Lake]

Post by Webgenie
This just in -
http://nl.com.com/view_online_newsletter.jsp?list_id=e415 - Opera 10.6
to be released

Surely 10.60 has been out since the end of last week?

Harry

[Webgenie]

I have last week's release, but I guess we'll see if there will be a
new release at the end of the week.

Webgenie

Post by Harry Lake

Post by Webgenie
This just in -
http://nl.com.com/view_online_newsletter.jsp?list_id=e415 - Opera 10.6
to be released

Surely 10.60 has been out since the end of last week?
Harry
--

[Harry Lake]

Post by Webgenie
I have last week's release, but I guess we'll see if there will be a
new release at the end of the week.

No hint of it on the developers blog. We haven't even had a snapshot
this week yet, let alone a beta or an RC.

[John Silby]

Yes, according to this post
http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/2010/07/01/opera-10-60-goes-final it
was released last Thursday. Opera told me there was an update, and
downloaded and installed it.

John

Post by Harry Lake
Surely 10.60 has been out since the end of last week?
Harry

[Webgenie]

I guess CNET is a day late and a dollar short ;)

Webgenie

Post by John Silby
Yes, according to this post
http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/2010/07/01/opera-10-60-goes-final it
was released last Thursday. Opera told me there was an update, and
downloaded and installed it.
John

Post by Harry Lake
Surely 10.60 has been out since the end of last week?
Harry

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Note: No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large
number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced

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[Ledgem]

Is it true that Opera 10.60 includes anti-malware functionality from AVG, as the CNet article claims? I hadn't read about that in the developer blog. I'd think that would be a big deal worth mentioning numerous times if it were true. The CNet article seems to have gotten some facts wrong, so I don't really believe it... would be interested to know if it were true, though.

David

Post by Webgenie
I guess CNET is a day late and a dollar short ;)
Webgenie

Post by John Silby
Yes, according to this post
http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/2010/07/01/opera-10-60-goes-final it
was released last Thursday. Opera told me there was an update, and
downloaded and installed it.
John

Post by Harry Lake
Surely 10.60 has been out since the end of last week?
Harry

--

[Hallvord Steen]

Post by John Silby
The messages sent to the Yahoo group that James started were publicly

readable.

Post by John Silby
That's not something that I'd want if I was a member; messages should only be
accessible to the members of the group.

John, the archives for the opera-***@opera.com mailing list are public, here:
http://list.opera.com/pipermail/opera-users/


As this list has always had a public archive I suggest the new Yahoo group keeps
archives open too. It's sometimes been convenient for me personally to be able
to search OU archives with Google by adding things like "site:list.opera.com" to
a search. I wouldn't want to loose that benefit.

I regret the closing of this list BTW :-(. For a mailing list like this one, low
volume can actually be a benefit since higher volumes can be overwhelming. I
wasn't involved in making that decision and have joined the new Yahoo group just
in case this list's crowd transitions over..

Hallvord

[Webgenie]

I upgraded earlier in the week to version 10.60, and noticed that I
can't access Movoto - here's an example page -

http://www.movoto.com/real-estate/homes-for-sale/CA/Auburn/190-Orange-St-102_10035408.htm

I get the message that XML parsing failed, and there is a link for
HTML which gives me nothing. Is there a setting or something that I
can adjust? I like Redfin better anyway, but my husband likes Movoto.

Webgenie

[Bessenyei Balázs]

It appears that there is an user agent sniffing on the page. Try to Mask
as Firefox in the site specific settings.

Post by Webgenie
I upgraded earlier in the week to version 10.60, and noticed that I
can't access Movoto - here's an example page -
http://www.movoto.com/real-estate/homes-for-sale/CA/Auburn/190-Orange-St-102_10035408.htm
I get the message that XML parsing failed, and there is a link for
HTML which gives me nothing. Is there a setting or something that I
can adjust? I like Redfin better anyway, but my husband likes Movoto.
Webgenie
--

[Webgenie]

Thank you, that worked!

Webgenie

Post by Bessenyei Balázs
It appears that there is an user agent sniffing on the page. Try to Mask
as Firefox in the site specific settings.

Post by Webgenie
I upgraded earlier in the week to version 10.60, and noticed that I
can't access Movoto - here's an example page -
http://www.movoto.com/real-estate/homes-for-sale/CA/Auburn/190-Orange-St-102_10035408.htm
I get the message that XML parsing failed, and there is a link for
HTML which gives me nothing. Is there a setting or something that I
can adjust? I like Redfin better anyway, but my husband likes Movoto.
Webgenie
--

--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
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[Hallvord Steen]

Post by Webgenie
I upgraded earlier in the week to version 10.60, and noticed that I
can't access Movoto - here's an example page -

Hi, please report this on https://bugs.opera.com/wizard/ - even though it's not
Opera's fault, Opera Software's "Open the Web" team wants to know about it and
ask the site to fix the problem.

Thanks in advance :)
Hallvord

[Webgenie]

Hallvord, I reported this.

Webgenie

Post by Hallvord Steen

Post by Webgenie
I upgraded earlier in the week to version 10.60, and noticed that I
can't access Movoto - here's an example page -

Hi, please report this on https://bugs.opera.com/wizard/ - even though it's not
Opera's fault, Opera Software's "Open the Web" team wants to know about it and
ask the site to fix the problem.
Thanks in advance :)
Hallvord
--

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Note: No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large
number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced

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